S3 E9 - Meditation

I am speaking with Susan Kinsey, a meditation teacher, sound healer and energy healer. How does meditation work, how can we start with this sometimes still mysterious practice? And of course we are talking about the benefits of meditating.

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Transcript

Laura Konst: 0:06

Hi and welcome to the Tali and Loz podcast where we discover spirituality together. And today with me, I have Susan Kinsey. Hello, hello Susan. And she is a lot of things, including energy healer, meditation teacher and sound healer. But today we are going to focus on meditation. Because Susan, I think there's even that people say, Oh, I've meditate or meditate on it, it's still a sort of mystery thing. It has a it has a mysterious vibe around it. And you're going to tell us what it does and how it how we can start. And also what it how it will help us really.

Susan: 0:53

So I think if I kind of start at the beginning of my journey, that's probably a good a good place to start. So I personally came into meditation when I was 14 on my 40th birthday, and found myself sitting in a class in a lady's house in a studio. And I was almost prescribed to go to the class by my GP. And I was one of those, this isn't gonna work, it's gonna be total rubbish. And I sat there, and the lady guided the most beautiful meditation. And I found myself falling into a place that I didn't even know existed. And it was, it was a place of, of stillness. And I had I was, I've been in sales for many years, and I had a really fast, busy life. And it was almost like, you know, you see these hamsters, and they're on these wheels, and they're just running and running and running, and they don't know how to get off. Yes, it was almost like, someone had come down and stop the wheel.

Laura Konst: 2:08

Right. And

Susan: 2:12

there was about 10 people in the room. And it was just so beautiful. This, it sort of I realized I was I could feel my body. And I could feel myself sitting in the chair. And then I started to cry because it was just, I wasn't crying from sadness. It was I was crying because it was like an epiphany. Yeah. And I thought, this is I need this in my life. So I felt relaxed. I felt calm. I felt peaceful. And I'd kind of felt like I'd come home. Does that make sense? Yes,

Laura Konst: 2:53

definitely. Wow. But was that she was guiding. She was guiding the class. Yeah. And you went with her? And but how did you feel when your GP said you sort of prescribed you to go there? Where you think this is where you're at? Or

Susan: 3:09

like, what is he said to me? Because I had sort of been suffering with anxiety and a bit of stress. And I just kept getting like cold after cold after cold. And I just couldn't get myself well. And he said to me, I think it might be a good idea. If you try. Try to meditate or try some mindfulness. And then I, I went online, and I just put meditation in Epsom, as you do. And this lady a Gillian Lenay, who was he's a fabulous teacher just popped up. And I rang her straightaway. And she said, I've got one, one space left, and then tonight, and that was the light on my birthday. And I just went, wow, it was divinely timed, I think. And when I came out, when I came out of the session, I'd had a bit of OCD in my life. Do you know what that is? Oh, yes, yes. So I always checking my car wasn't it was only very mild, but I realized it was growing. And I'd always check my car door like three or four times, you know, is it locked, it's locked. And I came out of her session. I got in the car, and I felt great. And I went home. And I got out of the car and went into the house. And then I looked back at the car from my window and I went, I didn't check it. And it was a moment where I realized I was no longer controlled by my anxiety. And I just sat I just sat on the floor in the lounge and I was like, I need to learn how to really develop this. Yeah, and then and then over time, I'm going to teach them And it was like, it was always like something lit inside me. And then lots of different events came into my life after that. Training with Sadhguru Have you heard of him?

Laura Konst: 5:16

Oh, yes. Yeah, he's very good.

Susan: 5:18

Yeah, he's very, very good. So I did an in the in engineering free for a year. And, and he takes you into what I would consider a deeper level. So you learn about yourself? Yeah. And then I found myself bringing people into my life, you know, because they were saying, Oh, wow, you just a completely different person. So how has this happened? And I was meditating now, every day, twice a day. And so I started organically bringing people into my house and teaching them how to meditate to small groups, five, six people in my house. And one lady said to me, you should run bigger groups more regularly. And so I did. So I just hired a whole. And people just kept kept coming and coming. And then I found some micro sanctuary in your village where I trained as a healer. And then, you know, more and more people were coming. And so the guided meditation technique that I use, is based around relaxation. So I know that you could go a lot deeper, and you could do sort of alternate nose, breathing, you could do breath work, which I do do that sometimes. But I focus on the guided relaxation, because I think this is the most effective in this day and age. You know, keeping keep it simple. Do

Laura Konst: 7:02

you agree? Yes, I agree. Yes, I think is overthinking a lot of people. Especially when I'm doing events and talk about meditation, a lot of people say, but I try it. And then after two minutes, I think, oh, I need to get broccoli for groceries, or, you know, the classic mind wandering off type of thing. What do you even though when they listen to people, even when they have guided meditation rather than stillness? What do you How would you approach that to for them to do better really, for themselves.

Susan: 7:36

So I have, I have several different methods that are used for different people. So when I say when I trained, I used to use a candle flame. So Jillian Renee, she taught me so you light a candle in honor of the space. And then you because what some people find difficult is just to sit with themselves. So you gaze at the candle flame. And then you lower the eyes to about 50%. And then you gaze at the candle flame more and then the eyes because they're being held at 50%. You then let them close, and you rest with what's inside. And if your mind becomes very busy and very distracted, you can then open your eyes again. And you can gaze at the candle flame and watch it flickering, it's very therapeutic to watch. And then you lower your eyes again. And then you completely close them. And over a period of time and practice, what we find is when we light candles to practice the meditation, the eyes naturally dropped. It's almost like a pre program. So it goes on. This is the meditation space. I'm going to close my eyes now and just relax. So that's there's one one's kind of solution, I guess. Yeah, the next solution is counting the breath. So you will see bring yourself into awareness and close the eyes. And feel the weight of your body on the couch, or chair or wherever you are, and then count the breaths or count one in and then to out and see if you can get 20 without getting distracted. So this is this is to be honest, the practice that I teach most of my new clients. So you breathe in for one out for two, and you keep going and if you get to five and you start thinking about broccoli, or what you have a potato and I don't don't beat yourself up, that's actually a normal response. And then what you do is you say, Okay, I'm thinking about broccoli, that's okay. I'm gonna go back to one. And then over a period of time might take a couple of months, you will find you'll get to maybe 10 or 15 or 20. And then when you get to 20 you can let go and do see where it goes. And quite a few people have said to me, I liked the guided meditations. And I said to them, but the the guide that in in the outbreath is more of a discipline. And meditation is quite as it is a discipline. Yes. So I think, to keep it very, very simple. And to start with something really simple, like the light the candle flame. Yeah. And then just counting the breath.

Laura Konst: 10:32

Right? Just start with that. Yes. And do you reckon that it has to be a certain amount of minutes or poor people evening, five minutes a day, that would help,

Susan: 10:45

I think personally, I can get a result for myself, if I'm in a stressful environment, or if I feel tired or depleted, I can get a result for myself for probably just in a minute. So if I was your hair is really powerful. So if I can just close my eyes, and just feel the weight of my body resting in the space, and become very present with the energy. So when you find yourself becoming present, this is a mindfulness technique as well. So you become very present, and you don't necessarily have to have your eyes closed to meditate. So if you say, say, for an example, you are sitting in a forest, or your park or your garden, and you bring your awareness to a tree in front of you. So you focus on, first of all, the strength of the branch of the trunk, reminding yourself of your own strength, the leaves and the movement of the leaves, reminding yourself of your own flexibility, and then the colors, and then go back to your breathing. And that in itself can be a very beautiful experience.

Laura Konst: 12:07

Yeah, yes, that's true. So it's just being there. Like in the now rather than thinking about past or future, isn't it?

Susan: 12:18

And then now is, I think the now is a very precious space, you know, we, we can create almost a sacred moment for ourselves, just by being really present and honoring and saying, saying to ourselves, you know, out loud or silently if it's, you know, if it's not appropriate, you could just say, I really love you. I really, really love you. Yes. And that, you know, there's lots of things that can be done within the meditative space. You know, we can really honor the heart space, we can really honor ourselves and say, you know, it's okay to feel sad if you're feeling sad. So okay to feel angry. If you're feeling angry. You know, like, we were talking, you were talking about the Now moment, everything passes. So know that every moment changes

Laura Konst: 13:12

ever. Yeah, even now is passing? That's it? Yeah. And how? How has it changed your life? And how will it change other people's lives? Is they doing that discipline of meditation quite regularly? Not necessarily every day, even, like, even three times a week or two times a week? What do you feel that what, what brings people

Susan: 13:41

so for me, what it's brought me is and clients as well, the feedback that I get is, I always say, you're in control. So you can, every moment you can choose how to respond to a situation. So you can choose to respond to the situation that you're in, if you're very present, and mindful, which is a natural result of meditation. So you could choose to be compassionate, not that you have to be kind of a doormat, you know, I mean, you can choose to be you can still be boundaried you can choose to be compassionate. And you could choose to be angry if you want to be because anger isn't a bad energy, if it's used in the right way. Yes, you know, and sometimes we need to be cross about a situation for it to change. So, I think for meditation, when you're very mindful of a situation in your present, you can then choose how to respond because you have I think it just gives you more compassion.

Laura Konst: 14:47

Yeah. To watch yourself as well, I suppose mainly, yourself, then accepting, accepting things. I think for me when I was I've lost a bit I have been in contact with meditation myself as well, I'm trying to get back into it. But especially when I was really deep in meditation, I think, because it came from difficult situation with divorce and after IVF and all that stuff, I think it gave me the ability to process everything properly, properly. I had a lot of dreams at the time as well, but very strong dreams. I remember my dreams anyway, I'm very good and dream recalling since I was a child, it's like a natural ability. But at the time, it was all over the place. I've written books about what I was dreaming. But I think during that meditation, I took those dreams often for myself, and connect them on what I was going through at the time. So I think it's almost like your own. Yeah, like, you're making everything right in your brain properly. Process. Everything is like your own therapy. Almost. Yes,

Susan: 16:10

that's a good word. And I think also, we're born with this inner compass, like a satellite navigation system. And I think when we're very present with using meditation and mindfulness, obviously, when we're present, we can then become very aware of what we're aligned to, and what we're not. Yes. And we can then you know, when you get that, that tight feeling in the body when things aren't quite right. And you can say to yourself with compassion. I gotta let that go. Yes. And when you we let that go. We let go with grace. Yeah. And I think, you know, meditation, mindfulness can teach us this, it brings grace into our life in a big way. And then you find yourself living a life of harmony. Yeah. Harmonic beings, which was supposed to be you know, we have these amazing voices were harmonic beings. Yeah. So does that answer? What does that answer your question?

Laura Konst: 17:12

I think so. Yeah, I think it's very, my listeners, often they know about, they know about meditation. But some of them are struggling to get in touch. And I have a question also for you, which sort of relates to what I just said, like myself when I was very, very deep into meditation, all that stuff, but now I'm sort of struggling. What do you recommend a should be doing?

Susan: 17:41

I mean, if you're struggling with meditation, I would personally kind of take the struggle out of your life and think, what it first thing what do I enjoy doing most? What? And bring some joy back into your life? Yeah. So sometimes, I mean, I don't know if you I think we spoke about this, I run retreats as well. And on the retreats, we do a mindfulness walk. Yes, med meditative forest walk. So it's because some people come to me and they say, so I can't sit still. I just, you know, I'm struggling with this meditation because I'm struggling to sit with myself. And I said, you know, what, there's a was a really famous guy. Unfortunately, he's passed away now called Titchener. Han. And he taught a meditative style of walking. So you, if you enjoy walking in nature, so you walk at the your normal pace, walk in silence, this is very important. And you walk slowly. And you greet the breath as it comes in. And you kiss the ground as you're walking with your feet. And you release any tension as you breathe out. So if you greet the breath as it comes in, like a, like a good friend, and embrace the breath, and then as you breathe out, breathing out anything that doesn't really serve you anymore. What you're doing is you're moving your brain states into into a meditative state. Yeah. And then you might find, suddenly, you become very aware of the bird noise, but sound, you become very aware of the trees and the brightness of the Tres. And you realize all of a sudden, you're actually meditating and your brainwaves slow down to what they call theta. When you're in a creative space, what I call an inspirational zone. And then this is the time to say to yourself, you're doing okay, yeah, you're meditating. You're doing well, and almost to, you know, to be pleased with that, and I think some times when we have a busy life and live does go 110 miles an hour, sometimes. It's just recognizing what you really like to do, first of all, and do more of that. It might be that you like walking, you might say, I really like walking in nature, so but can't sit still and meditate. Yeah, if you slow down when you're walking, walk in silence. This is a meditative experience.

Laura Konst: 20:28

Right? So it doesn't have to be always said still? No, because they do say yoga is also a form of meditation. Do you agree on that as well,

Susan: 20:37

I totally agree with that. And I have lots of friends that do all different types of activities, metta, meditation, yoga, pilates, tai chi, some of them even really love running. And they find that almost meditative, because because they get into a rhythm. Yeah. And they like to run with no headset on you know, just to get into the rhythm, feel the breath. And I think it's about returning home to what you truly, truly aligned with and what you truly love to do. And then, sometimes, if you're walking out in nature, let's use that as an example. So you're walking out in nature, you've been walking silently. And then you might see a bench, sit down on the bench. Don't put any pressure on yourself to meditate. But what you might find naturally happens is you start to do it anyway.

Laura Konst: 21:35

Right? Because you're already in that zone, like your brain waves already slowed down, going to DITA Pisa. And then, when you sit down, it sort of continues that way.

Susan: 21:51

You know, and I think what I found in life is when I've put a lot of pressure on myself to meditate, an hour in the morning, an hour in the evening, half an hour at lunchtime, it feels like a challenge, and not a pleasurable activity. So I took that out of my life. And I said, That's too much. I'm going to go back to the walking. Yeah, the walk, walk with clients, walk by myself. And then kind of start from basics again, go back to basics. Yeah. And, you know, if you've got a really good yoga teacher or a Pilates teacher, that the end of the class you find they do that lovely kind of yoga nidra, don't they? And love that. That is a meditation. So you can you'll find that when your body is aligned, and all the energy centers are recalibrated. You find that when you're laying down in a state of peace and stillness, you can actually go quite deep in that space. Yes. Might be five minutes. Yeah. Right. It helps.

Laura Konst: 23:02

Yes. And how do you view these metals? You have a lot of meditation apps, for example. How What's your finding on those? You're saying they are a massive help to people is the right people,

Susan: 23:19

I think is whatever you resonate with at the time, so I like I like listening to sort of podcasts, philosophical podcasts. And generally what I find sometimes listening to someone who has a rhythmical voice, and who is present someone or Eckhart Tolle, yeah, that can be a meditative experience in its own right. Right. Because he's, he's very present. Yeah.

Laura Konst: 23:49

He's here. He's here.

Susan: 23:51

He's here, right? He's definitely some sort of profit, I think, I feel so just to listen to him. If you're aligned to him, and if you feel good when you're listening, you could carry on or you could listen to as an app called calm. Yeah. I think it's whatever we need, really listen to your gut. So if you switch or if you switch your podcast or no fuse switch or meditation or guided meditation, if you feel a bit agitated or tight, then that's a good sign that is probably not aligned to you. Yeah. But there's a million others out there. So we could just think you know, maybe I need someone who talks possibly more, more or less

Laura Konst: 24:39

or less Are you sick? Well, yeah, this is another question is your sound healer as well. And there's a lot of sound healing out there. Also on the on the meditation apps, and certain habits as well resonate with certain chakras. Do you find that they bring us do cheaper, then spoken meditations? Or do you think there's not much of a difference? Again, it's all about resonating with one,

Susan: 25:10

I think it's about resonating. And in sort of sound, the sound training that I had from the British Academy of sound therapy they taught us, it's about more about the science background. So looking at different ways of moving you into relaxation, or reflection, says, the two very different sound bars. So relaxation, sound bath, just generally has a different feel to it. A reflection sound bath tends to go a lot deeper. And I would say that, if you can find someone that does both, so if you can find someone that leaves guides you into theta into a meditative state, and then have the soundbar over overlapping.

Laura Konst: 26:03

That can be brilliant. Yeah, that's very powerful.

Susan: 26:06

It's very, very powerful. And I think if you can find someone, if it's online, or if it's face to face, who's very present? And, you know, you can, you know, you meet someone, and you can tell they're present, can't you? Yes. I think if you can find someone like that, that's going to be brilliant. Are you?

Laura Konst: 26:31

And are you the person the online classes as well?

Susan: 26:34

I do. I've been doing. I've been doing this for about 10 years. So I teach online for people who like to be at home. And for people who don't live close to me. And I do that every other week. And I've been doing that pre COVID. And then we just carried it on after Oh, good, because it works. Because it works. Why break something when you know, try try and fix something, you know. And I also run local classes for people in the local area. So your village and at Walton on the hill. And I do those once a month. And the energies at the venues are different. So the St. Michael sanctuary energy is very nurturing. It's it's it's a very sacred space. It's very nurturing. It's very holding, embracing energy. And the other space that I use the correspond the inner sanctum there. It's it's, it's very difficult to explain until you go there. So it's it's a very clear, clean space, the energy is very clear. And it's very light. Most people who go into the space say, Oh, I just feel different. So I can't put my finger on it. And I said, Do you feel like they see? Yeah, I feel like I am made of light.

Laura Konst: 28:04

Oh, wow. So it's the more like almost like higher beings? I a bit. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Susan: 28:13

I totally agree with that statement. Yeah.

Laura Konst: 28:16

Wow. So that's great for if you want, if you have also customers that want to develop that a bit more? Yes. If you have that light, high energy around that big, right. There's some really good crystals out there as well. Like, your lives, your lives. If you put that in that room, that will be okay. going, Oh, I

Susan: 28:38

know. I can see. And that's the thing, like I can see just chatting to you that you are aligned to that. Because you when you said that you just lit your voice you just lit up. So I can see you became very animated. And you lit up. So yeah, yeah, yeah. So just you know, it's when you notice that and when you notice that in others is to encourage that

Laura Konst: 29:04

space to do that space. Yeah, that's true. Wow. That's

Susan: 29:08

beautiful, though. It's so cool. It's a calling it's your calling

Laura Konst: 29:10

is yes. Um, I am very much in my crown. But I know I should, I should focus a bit more like on my route at the moment. And that's, that's difficult for me even though you always have to start with your route. But I mean, I'm a Sagittarius and I've got four fire archetypes and a dragon in Chinese Zodiac says a lot of fire going on. It's very hard for fiery people to be, you know, in your routine, your sacred. Like to go 1000 miles an hour with our crown and third eye

Susan: 29:43

but okay. Yeah, that's okay. That's okay, though. I mean, it's, it's, you could use that as a strength actually, I think.

Laura Konst: 29:52

Perhaps, yes.

Susan: 29:55

Sadhguru talks about sometimes grounding and his is a little joke that he said it joke, but I think he says it, you know, sometimes jokes can have meaning can't know. Yes. And he says go outside and dig yourself a hole that's one foot deep, if go deeper if you can, and then put your feet in it and bury your feet so and stay there for half an hour. And that's grounding that is grounding.

Laura Konst: 30:22

But that's pretty nice if you're on a beach or something like on a sand beach especially, or it's so nice to put your feet literally in the ground. That's great. Yeah, I'm not sure if my local park, people appreciate me digging a hole in the subject to talk. But

Susan: 30:39

we know where you've been. Yeah, exactly. I love that.

Laura Konst: 30:45

Really. And then also, you briefly mentioned you also organize retreats.

Susan: 30:53

I do. And this is the second space that I was talking about, you know, we talked about the light, bright space is the Cosmo on sanctuary, water on the hill. And I do these with a very good friend, Linda Sadler, who was one of the founding members of the sound movement from way back there. And so we run day retreats, which offer we do a couple of sound bars, we kind of do a bit of forest bathing, we have amazing vegan food and Goddess cake. So it, we take small groups of about 11 people and we really, really look after you for the day. So it's so it's about says lots of things to talk about healing, sound bathing. But ultimately, what we're doing is were bringing that person into the present moment, and helping them holding the space for them to recognize what they're aligned with.

Laura Konst: 31:57

Yeah,

Susan: 31:58

it's it's just holding their hand, you know?

Laura Konst: 32:00

Yeah, but it's still it's still all of us around meditation as well bring that person back to the now. Yes. What kind of people they often find come come to you, is it often busy ladies? Or is it real ladies? Or stay at home moms raising them right mixture these days? I would

Susan: 32:21

say a huge mixture. If I'd be really honest, I have people in their early 20s 2122 going right up to people sort of 80s One lady in her 90s. And yeah, so we'll say that it's it's mainly women, but I do get guys coming in, which I love because it just changes the energy. And and I love that. So you know, it's not primarily women's retreat, we do keep the space open to all. And we tend to find that most people who come I would say they're seeking something. And what we do is we just talk about alignment, and what you resonate with. Most people enjoy the walk in the woods, they enjoy the sound bathing the great food, and I say to them at the end, how can you bring that into your life in a bigger way? Yeah. don't necessarily have to sit and meditate every day to bring joy into your life. Could be you know, one lady was talking to me about setting up a jewelry school making jewelry and she said I really aligned to that. So yes, well, why don't you do it, then? Yeah, she's now runs during making classes.

Laura Konst: 33:43

Oh, that's amazing. Yes.

Susan: 33:46

So it's not so people don't necessarily come come into the space who are looking for huge transformational changes. They're just looking for subtle changes to release some anxiety. And to understand that, you know what, it's okay, if you don't feel great all the time. And we talk about everything changing, you know, we talk about holding the space for yourself and for others and to recognize that, you know, we're Divine Beings of Light, you know, and it's when you remember that it's it's very powerful.

Laura Konst: 34:27

I think too much thinking these days. And I think also with all the news that's going on. Yeah, I think it brings people very much into their shell and maybe a bit scared on the inside as well. So all what if this happened? What if that happens? And I think then people like you that teach us how to meditate or bring light to other people's wives are very important because we all need that light moment that we all need to hear quite often it's going to be okay. It's going to be okay. And, and don't get caught too much caught up on what you hear or what you see in the news because that's not light. It's not like it is.

Susan: 35:11

It isn't. And I think cultivation is a really good thing. So people, some people say, Oh, keep away from the fear. But I think if you just stay with what you're aligned with and cultivate that, yes. So if you're not aligned to watching the news, then don't watch it. No, you can still keep up with current affairs in your own way. Yeah. And, and trust me, it will come to you anyway, anyway. But I think cultivate is a really lovely word. And if you cultivate with what you resonate with, what brings you joy, and what brings you peace, then that's going to be relatively helpful, I would say

Laura Konst: 35:51

yes. And that's what the meditation and bring yourself back to you and back.

Susan: 35:59

And be open minded. That's the main thing.

Laura Konst: 36:01

That's the main thing. thing we should have started I think, should have reversed that. We should definitely our podcast is very much for open minded people with the subjects that we touch. Yeah. And I think it's, it's a beautiful community once you're in there. So many people that we need. Yeah, open mind. It's the most beautiful thing.

Susan: 36:25

I mean, I think everything is divinely timed. I think, you know, when you feel like you're in flow, lean into it. Really, really trust the universe and lean in. That's my biggest message. When you're in flow. Lean right into the universe and trust and trust. And when you're not in flow, pull back. Yes. And cultivate what you lean in with.

Laura Konst: 36:49

A pullback is the meditation that you're talking about?

Susan: 36:53

Well, not necessarily. I think when something isn't when you're not in flow with something, you just step back out of the energy and then possibly find something else that you're in flow is yes, that's the meditation can help you with that, because it makes you very present. So you can feel you can really feel that in the body.

Laura Konst: 37:11

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that doesn't make sense. Yeah. That's beautiful.

Susan: 37:16

Thank you. It's been nice, nice chatting to you. Anyway, it's been lovely. Yes.

Laura Konst: 37:19

Thank you. So I will definitely put your details into the description. Okay, thank you very much. Yeah, you can find Susan and her retreats and her online classes as well in the links. And meditation is something beautiful. Let's start all with this. And for the listeners, this is the second to last episode for this season. One more to go. There will be about yoga and yeah, share the love and thank you so much for listening. Thank you so much.