S2 E13 - Movement Medicine

A fantastic episode where I am talking to Ksenia, a movement medicine apprentice teacher who is sharing the wonderful benefits of movement medicine with us.  I have learnt this is not about the 'perfect choreography and fab moves' it is about the connection between your body and heart.

Don't forget to try it yourself with the bonus episode following this talk!

Enjoy, connect to yourself and feel free.

 www.taliandloz.com
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Find Ksenia under:
Website: www.mm-kk.net
https://www.facebook.com/mmksenia/

Find the founders of Movement Medicine Here:
https://www.darlingkhan.com/
And the association Here
https://www.movementmedicineassociation.org/events.php

A Note from Ksenia:
It’s still so much easier for me to experience than to explain the power of Movement Medicine! Do give the Awakening The Dancer bonus episode a go and see how it lands for you. Including the possibility of pleasure…

And thank you, dear Laura,  for encouraging me to dance on with my imperfections. :)

Transcript

Laura Konst: 0:04

Welcome to the Tali and Loz podcast where we discover spirituality together. Today Ksenia is joining me and Sonia is someone who is deeply touched by movement medicine. And at the moment, she's also a apprentice teacher. So she's learning as well, but also knows a lot already, because it's a passion is something that she deeply, deeply feels. And she's just gonna explain everything to us that she knows. And I'm super excited. I extend Yeah. How are you today? Hi, Laura. Good. Good. Also excited to be here. Thank you for having me. Oh, you're welcome. It's something I you sort of know it existed, but I don't know what it actually is. If I think about movement medicine, I think it's very tribal. It's very ancient. Is that true?

Ksenia: 1:05

There is definitely an element of that in it, or it's a big part of it actually, as one of the co founders. Yeah, called Ya'Acov. He has been declared a shaman by various indigenous tribes. So that element is a big part of it. And it's, it's about connecting to that ancient wisdom, wisdom of nature, wisdom, you know, spirits. And combining that with, you know, Susanna, darling can his spouse and also the co founder, what she brings into it is more of the psychotherapy knowledge, the scientific knowledge and just a lot of experience also of embodiment, and studying with various teachers from the past.

Laura Konst: 1:56

So it actually goes a lot deeper than moving on music. I hear already so covered that part. But first, how did you getting in contact with movement medicine.

Ksenia: 2:11

Um, I got in contact through a referral. So I'm just thinking where to start, you know, because all of my life since childhood, I've loved to dance. And I've always, you know, I started out with Russian folk dance, actually, when I was, I think, six. And I just whenever I was dancing, it was such a different feeling to when I was, you know, going about whatever else in life, and it was just such joy and power in it for me. And even later, as a teenager, I used to walk a lot, and listen to music. And it was somehow this combination of movement and music, like music medicine, that has really given me something given a permission like for things that I couldn't give space to and other aspects of life. And then I dance salsa, you know, Tango, a bit of everything and loved it. But it was when I, a friend of mine invited me to five rhythms five rhythm class. And that is, you know, more known, perhaps form of conscious dance. And that is where it really exploded for me, like, I just felt such freedom that I've never experienced before of expression through the body, and just not having to look a certain way not having to follow steps or doing certain moves, but just to music, which I love, you know, to express whatever is there in that moment, and together with other people, and yeah, wow. And then through that I already kind of knew of actually from the first class that I wanted to pass the song in some way or form. And I got a recommendation by a five rhythms teacher for Yakuza. Suzanne has work. And I'm so so grateful for it, because it's given me so much in life. Maybe we'll come come to later.

Laura Konst: 4:13

Yeah, definitely. So you were mentioning couple of times the five rhythms music. Can you explain what that is? What does it entail?

Ksenia: 4:22

There's no five rhythms music is such just to clarify that so there are the five rhythms that invites you into certain kinds of movements and aspects also of your being. And I am not going to go too deep too deep into that because it's, you know, I've not studied five rhythms. So, but I really appreciate again, the freedom that it gave me it was like my way in to conscious dance and, and movement medicine, you know, With the Akhavan, Susanna, there were five rhythms teachers before they've founded the school and movement medicine. And so out of that they created something else with other routes to it. And something that I found a lot of, for me even more permission for myself to not push myself, because that has been a big unlearning in my life. Wow. And I say that

Laura Konst: 5:31

unlearning. It's been learning. Yeah.

Ksenia: 5:34

Right. Yeah.

Laura Konst: 5:38

Good. And so you're talking about the, you're talking about the school of movement medicine? Yes, that isn't actual school, I've looked on the website with the founders that you mentioned. So how do for the listeners and also for myself? How does it work? What do you learn at a school? What is all that? What is that?

Ksenia: 6:05

Good question. So you can engage on different levels with movement medicine, so there is a school because they do they have an apprenticeship. So that is to go deeper into the work with your personal stories, whatever in your life you wish to look at, or experience through this lens of medic movement medicine. And, and then after that, you can take the professional training. So that is what I'm doing right now in the middle of it, to learn how to teach, to learn how to hold movement, medicine spaces, how to pass on your unique medicine as well, because every teacher is unique in a way, and there are also options to just take an weekend class workshop, or a class with, you know, various teachers as part of the association.

Laura Konst: 7:03

Ah, okay. So it's also it's not just a school, they also do workshops and plastic classes for you know, if you just want to do like you said, a weekend or a day or so it's, it's, it's open for everyone.

Ksenia: 7:15

Yeah, and right now, actually, they have a lot of their work online, you know, through the pandemic. It's the 21 gratitudes.com. So there is a whole hub of their offering the exercises and also classes.

Laura Konst: 7:31

So, yeah, it's very accessible. So movement medicine itself, how does it work? And how does it affect the body, mind and soul?

Ksenia: 7:43

Ah, so there's so many it's just, there's so such a huge amount of into distill it is always a challenge. But I like that challenge. So it's, basically, if you simplify it, it's a combination of interoception. And movement. And for me, also, an important part of it is imagination. So interoception is kind of, it's feeling into your body, what is happening in your body, you know, just sensations, feelings, emotional condition, physical condition, and what wants to be expressed, and movement, that's easier to understand. So combining that with awareness, with movement, really going within, to sense and to move with, so not just, you know, like, another meditation would be to feel and sit with it, maybe. But here, it's really an important part of it is the movement. So you release you activate the body and through moving youth it's easier to get access to certain parts of the body and certain emotions also that is more difficult through just sitting you know, or standing or being static. Yeah, and imagination in terms of, you know, inviting the imaginal, inviting, you know, through metaphors through imagining connections with the spiritual, the natural world, and also just, I mean, recently, for example, I was doing a class and a friend of mine said, she really appreciated this imagining that you're, I was saying, imagine you're oiling your shoulders, so that whatever you're carrying in your life right now can just start to slip off. You know, just little things and ways of some also call it the woowoo and there is there's a great video on why woowoo work So like it's it kind of does something to your brain to and helps you to go into places. New places in the body or release, you know? Yeah,

Laura Konst: 10:13

something. Yes. It's like It's like connecting. It's connecting all three of them. It's connecting your body, mind and soul. And how are you saying and the heart with movements. So when you do the teaching, and actually, for the listeners, we are going to record a session after this and you can participate. You can listen to it and do it yourself. But the session will be music and you are talking as well. Is that right? Are you talking through on how we have to move?

Ksenia: 10:47

That's right, not how you have to move, but just giving you guidance and invitations to tune into various body parts. Yeah, maybe exploring various ways of movement.

Laura Konst: 11:00

Right? Yes. It's not like a choreography. It's not as imposing as on. It's okay to let go. But I'll just make up something on the spot. Because I never done. Yeah, that's really, yeah, that's that's sort of the thing. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And what if people think, okay, I would like to try it, but I can't dance. I don't have rhythm. What do you say? What would you say to that person?

Ksenia: 11:29

Interestingly, I would say that might make it even easier for you. Because again, you don't need to unlearn. You don't need to unlearn the pattern of having to look good when you dance, or I do these movements always in salsa, so I'm going to do these movements again, you know, it's just giving your body the permission, to send your impulses and to move with that, you know, to really, just to awaken your curiosity, also to see what you find and, and you could also move with embarrassment or whatever shows up, you know, and resistance. So there is a dance of resistance always. And that's really been such an important tool in my life, that when there are things that are more difficult, that show up, that I can give them shape and form, you know, instead of finding the solution in my head all the time,

Laura Konst: 12:27

right? So you also take it throughout your daily life. Yes, while you're saying, okay, so when you're in like difficult situation, let's say you have disagreed with someone at work or privately

Ksenia: 12:42

a lot of moments.

Laura Konst: 12:47

You express it, instead of holding it to yourself and sit on the sofa and think this has happened and XYZ, you go free dancing. And that's how you express and release. Is that right?

Ksenia: 13:01

Yeah. So I, for example, if I have conflict with my son, who's three, and he's really pushing my buttons a lot, which I'm grateful for, you know, as well. But first of all, it's really useful to tune into the body as this is happening, just to notice, well, there's a lot of tension in me right now. There's usually anger rising. And sometimes I will actually do so I do with him, as I say that fire, kind of release it upwards. And he finds it funny sometimes that really, it also brings in the humor to the situation. And sometimes when it's really been intense and difficult, I cannot do it in the moment. But at the end of the day, for example, I will put on some music to go to really get that shape to wow, that was really hard really, to let it move and it becomes it begins to shift, you know, as a move.

Laura Konst: 14:04

Right? Actually, all of a sudden, I had a brainwave, and I was listening to you. We often talk in well, even everyone but specifically holistic, healing about stagnant energy. And you just said that the like it can just move. So that would make sense is the stagnant energy that you can then easily move yourself to release that without waiting for a Reiki session or whatever. So yes, that sounds pretty interesting. Yeah. And you mentioned the founder, the co founder, she also likes to have the perspective of psychotherapy and the science. What what, how do we have to interpret that? What does she do with it? Or what does she say about it?

Ksenia: 15:00

So she is a trained Gestalt therapist, or was. And she also has, or is always bringing in aspects of, you know, rewiring your brain. So it's the neural, kind of creating new patterns in your brain to override the old to unlearn. And it's it's often through the body that you that I feel safe enough to do that, as you know that I are having a different experience, like, through activating my whole body through connecting to the resources, I can begin to override the story of being unsafe to to, and the more often I do that, the more the safer the world becomes, you know, the more I can trust my body to know when I need what and, you know, it's it's this combining, connecting, and then the mind begins to create new stories. So, yeah, it stops telling me, all people are dangerous, which some of my stories aren't around that. So I have to close up, I have to really be defend, defending myself be strong. When can I lean into the resources and open up and actually engage with life with the other person.

Laura Konst: 16:35

And if I, if I have this image in my head that if you see what I mentioned earlier, in my head, it's sort of like tribal, dancing around a fire at night. I assume this is a bit more modern way. So we can just do it over zoom or anything like that. But does that make a difference? Does it make a difference when you do give it that tribal ancient atmosphere versus on Zoom? Or would it both work equally as well, for us?

Ksenia: 17:10

I think what I see there is definitely a difference between being in a room with 100 people and dancing or around a fire for that matter, with 100 people and dancing. And between being in your own space at home and on Zoom. It is very different, of course. So and it's not, it's not just worse, you know, some, it's not maybe for everyone to do it from home, which I have experience but from other dancers, but it is is, is a way to, also for me even make even more space from myself to have to really tune inwards, so I don't have the other people who I am doing anything with or for also, you know, that's also one of the patterns that I am unlearning. And I, I can experience the medicine of this within my own space. And also to connect more with my space, which is an interesting side effect almost, that with my home of how I the energy that I create here, or live in or you know, the objects and this is my cocoon, almost. And, and still be connected to others through the screen. And it's always it's always surprising me how deep the connection can still be with others through the screen when people really feel safe. And and, you know, not nothing is expected of them. And to share to see each other and on and to share through the body as well as words.

Laura Konst: 19:00

Yes, I see. So, in essence, it probably doesn't make a difference. But it's just the atmosphere and how you and where you feel safe. Because that will be a thing for me, personally, that I think even though it's just you or me, I'm looking at okay, well, these images are never going to come out. Nobody can see me like I'm happy to try. But yeah, I think it's sort of but then equally, I think if you if you're on a beach, you know, even when you're on holiday, not necessarily somewhere tribal, wherever, on Brighton. And there is a fire and everybody's dancing that you also just participate in, be free and it's maybe yeah, it just gives them a different atmosphere. But it's still medicine perhaps.

Ksenia: 19:49

Yeah, of course, you know, group, you know, together and next to each other. It's, you know, their energies that are co created in the room and there's a That beautiful co creation of the dance also where something in the other inspires you and vice versa. And sometimes Korea, not choreographies. But things just emerge, like a collective dance. And that is more definitely more difficult to experience or create online.

Laura Konst: 20:24

Yes. Yeah. Because you're not in each other's direct and right. Yeah. So see energy fields. And then yeah. And the founder. So you mentioned they are. Very well block. The founders, you mentioned they are shamans as well.

Ksenia: 20:42

Yakov is Yeah. Oh, go. Okay. So

Laura Konst: 20:44

one of the one of the two, one of them. Did he learn this in his shaman practices, or even before the five rhythms? So how did what is his story actually, through setting this up?

Ksenia: 21:04

So he studied for over three decades, I believe with various peoples. He had, he lived together with a Shama and Asami shaman in the north, I'm not sure for how long but substantial period of time and just was his apprentice. And he's also I mean, they both worked a lot. Yeah. Covance was Anna with the peoples in the Amazon. So the sapra a jewelry I believe the two tribes? And it's, it's a really interesting question of, how are what that brings in, because I wouldn't be able to clearly separate it from from, you know, what, he and Susanna the other aspects that they bring into it. I feel like it's more. It's like an absorbed wisdom and absorbed. importance they give to some things like the inter being the interconnection of life, for example, and the connection to nature. So it's really It's in every aspects I feel of there being more than specific exercises or elements that are separate from the rest

Laura Konst: 22:31

the rest. Ah, so you said that it's it. This is them. It is them? It's Yes, yeah, it embodies their comes through them. Yeah, yes, rather than the then he or she or both. Were saying, Oh, look, let's learn this. And then we're

Ksenia: 22:46

going to now we'll do a tribal part. And we'll do Yeah, yes.

Laura Konst: 22:49

I like that. It's not like that. Oh, wow. That's very beautiful. So it really comes from deeply within or just go through them when people want to experience this, because it's not necessarily per se learning. I have learned you don't have to learn this, you have to experience it. This from what I've learned from you so far. Plus a lot more obviously, but specifically, because I was a bit nervous, like what do I have to learn of this? But now it's just experiencing? How do they go about it? Where do they start?

Ksenia: 23:24

People who want to try this? Yes? Well, a good place to start will be with the exercise we're going to record called to look for a teacher in your areas on movement medicine, association.org. You can find all the movement medicine teachers, and a lot of them now also during the pandemic have started to teach online so there's really it's very accessible. Yes. And in various languages. There are some people who who upload their recordings, music and guidance sometimes on Mixcloud. Also look for that. Yeah, is that kind of what you were?

Laura Konst: 24:10

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, and yourself. People can go to your website.

Ksenia: 24:18

I don't. So my website is temporary one. But I do have an Instagram account also. Yes, you're very welcome to attend it. Also, the first class online is for free. So you can come and try whether that works for you or not.

Laura Konst: 24:35

Exactly. Oh, that's nice. Let's see. That's great. It's very accessible. The first online nice is for free with a 10 Yeah, so I will as always put a description no than model description. You could contact send yet by temporarily website or Instagram as well. And yeah, get the first class for free. It's very accessible. for everybody, everybody can just join in, see how they feel they connect with you and the music. And I think it's a great way to start. And the music itself, we will obviously listen to it in a minute. But what kind of music is it?

Ksenia: 25:17

It's really various kinds of music. So I, I've actually, I've lost. I've lost grasp of the definitions of genres a long time ago, it's all kinds of mixes. And for me, it's mostly nowadays, music without words in it. So it really takes you doesn't take you up in the head, you know, understanding the lyrics. And it's slow and fast music, there are waves in that wave to support your waves of energy as you dance. I personally, it's also a very personal preference, like the music that really moves me is the music that I offer, you know, I would never play a track that I think is hip or you know, a lot of people love it. So I will play if I don't connect to it. Yes, it's the one that really resonates in me, or really moves me and my body and heart. I would offer in a class.

Laura Konst: 26:21

So it can be different with each teacher. It's one teacher might Yes, absolutely. And the other teacher maybe likes, flutes and pianos rather than drums. So it looks more

Ksenia: 26:32

electronic, or tribal or it's very, very different.

Laura Konst: 26:38

So there's not one size fits all with movement medicine. Oh, that's very interesting as well. So it's not per se, if you can't connect to certain teacher that move in medicine is not for you at all. It's just trying to find the right teacher. And with the music. It's like a big, big difference, obviously, with people. Yeah.

Ksenia: 27:00

Right. And different teachers, obviously also bring different stories and different aspects that are most important to them. They wish to give space for in their classes, you know? Yeah. So for Sarmad could be connection with each other for some healing certain wounds. I don't know. For me, it's really a lot of it is about connection with myself, to reconnect with myself and to allow myself to be seen to express to, to step into connection from a safe space.

Laura Konst: 27:37

Ah, yeah, so it's more discovering of oneself. Yeah, that where you're saying yes,

Ksenia: 27:43

right. And the permission really to, to bring all of yourself all of myself into the space into connection.

Laura Konst: 27:51

Right. So beautiful, I think is something that everybody should try at least once and then see where they come from. I think it's because it's not per se choreography. You don't have to learn how to do this. It's just go with the flow very literally. very literally, literally,

Ksenia: 28:13

no prerequisites to know starting. Yeah, absolutely.

Laura Konst: 28:17

Yeah, I think it's, yeah, to me sounds very beautiful.

Ksenia: 28:20

Yes. And I just wanted to share what, what is it specifically about movement medicine that has given me more permission than any other practice is, is the continuous encouragement of my teacher is to only go as fast as your body allows, so to only move with as much as your body can move with. So as soon as you stop moving, or there, you're overwhelmed by emotions, that's too much. So you ask for 10% of that, or even 5%. And so it's this titration and, and permission, you know, just this sense that this is already enough. Yeah. The enoughness of it, almost the enoughness of everything that's there in this moment, and whatever is possible. For me, and if I stand by the wall, you know, for most of my first session, that's okay. You know, it's already enough to try and have maybe micro sensations in your body. So it's not this expectation of having a big dance or that's better than small dance or fast better than slow or whatever it is just really to keep coming back to what really is in this moment. And to stay in the body with whatever it is and to not go somewhere else to somewhere Replace? Yeah, yeah. So

Laura Konst: 30:03

it's actually yeah, that's a that's a good point. So it is more about being very conscious rather than going into a trance.

Ksenia: 30:13

Right. Yeah, absolutely. Actually one of the things that Yakov often says is without going anywhere. And that always helps me without going anywhere. Just stay in your body and perhaps, inquire into your connection with the spiritual world, but from your body, you know, it's not leaving your body to go somewhere else.

Laura Konst: 30:36

Yes, because it's sort of the because I like to run obviously, it's not dancing. But when I do running, I often I call it my meditation, because I can easily run a few k, but it's like, sometimes some people have been your driver card, and all of a sudden, you'll finish, or you can't remember what you've made. You've been running to, for me, in my case we're driving to. So that that's sort of like going into a trance state, but with movement medicine. Yeah, I have to stay here.

Ksenia: 31:08

Stay here. Yeah.

Laura Konst: 31:11

Yeah, it's not like a meditation or trounced and depends, again, what you would call a meditation that mean, some you could say it's a meditation and movement and meditation in the sense of maybe a mindfulness exercise. But it's not a meditation of going somewhere else. Yeah, yes, I see. Yes. That's different. Different than, like these. Well, yeah. Expanding perhaps into somewhere else, but from within the body from here. Oh, it's from here. Yeah. Wow, that's so beautiful. We are going to record a session that everybody can listen to and participate. As well, it will be on a separate on a separate note than this episode. So you have to click to the next sort of episode, even though it's not an episode. And say, I want to thank you so much for this, because this is very, very new territory for me again, and that's what Tali & Loz podcast is all about. But discovering And everyone can connect with Ksenia her Instagram and a website which are in the descriptions. So feel free to try it out. I mean, why not right? Thank you so much, saying yeah, for your time and explanation. Are we going to record in the next one. But first, I want to say don't forget to subscribe and like and share on all social media as well because we want to spread our love for spirituality in all kinds of different shapes and forms. And I'd love to see you next week if I'd talk to you in the next session again. Thank you so much. Thank you, Laura. Have a wonderful

Unknown: 33:14

day.