Ep 14. Spiritual Veganism

I am talking to Haz who is a vegan and has a spiritual take on this. He will explain why this is, where it comes from and gives me great tips on how to gradually eat more vegan.

Sit back, relax and be inspired!

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Transcript

Laura Konst: 0:02

Hi and welcome to the Tali and Loz. Where we discover spirituality together. Today I have Haz here, who will talk about the spiritual beliefs in veganism. Hi, how are you today?

Unknown: 0:17

Well, thank you. Yeah, good to be here.

Laura Konst: 0:19

I think it's a concept that I have not thought about ever until we were introduced by Emma, So has tell us about the spiritual beliefs into veganism. Where does that come from?

Haz: 0:33

Okay, so growing up, I was religious, and in my teens and my 20s, I guess you could just describe me as non religious, that's still kind of the case. Now, although I take a lot of interest in different religions. And I think they all have something to say that's important. And that kind of connects you to two people and the past. Even the future, I guess, in some ways, if you let your if like, let my imagination go. When it comes to veganism I think what what happens there is that, especially for someone like me, that doesn't really have a religion, or doesn't really believe in anything, it doesn't know what to believe. And there's an aspect of it, that that's about care and towards others, all sentient life, and being grounded by suffering to an extent I think when when I've been particularly at the other end of nonbelief, you can you can not care, I guess, and I think that's when it comes to veganism, this spirituality side might just be that really fits with me is caring for as many as many as possible, and then getting a real sense of suffering in the world. And that grounding me

Laura Konst: 1:58

so it comes from because you grew up in a religion and obviously you learn about love as well and caring. And when you know, you're more spiritual, is it also the karmic belief that Do you believe that the energy of the animals and the souls of the animals, when we consume animals, they will become a part of us or they will interfere with our own spirituality? Do you see it that way?

Unknown: 2:26

Yeah, it's a really difficult one to say, I guess, I, I am really sort of a proponent of evidence and, you know, accurate observation, and being true to oneself and, but at the same time, when you do hear these kinds of statements made, as then I've heard it quite a lot, you know, we can, if you eat, eat the flesh of another being or an animal, you're most consumed the fear that they've gone through and I think that's, that's a really interesting idea and interesting concept. And, and I'll have to say that it's difficult for me to deny but it's also I don't know, I don't know how to prove it. And then, the, the other aspect of this is that, you know, observing the world around us and all of the difficulty and suffering if I if I am at my most cynical I sometimes think that it's because it you know, our treatment of each other doesn't kind of stop within our species, it's extended and there are knock on effects to our behavior, whether whether it's oppressive or caring and that knock on you know, that that's manifested and represented through our treatment of others, whether that's animals that we consume or the companion animals that we have or children or the people around us

Laura Konst: 4:07

and do you also believe that if we consume other animal or animals that that's the would give her a negative vibe into well onto Mother Earth really so that she or Gaia how some people call it Gaia, some people like to call it Mother Earth that that has a knock on effect on her as well on the environment and as she she will get upset about it as well.

Unknown: 4:34

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I'm thinking of the the band architects I don't know if your any of your viewers know of architects but there's a there's a wonderful song lyric that goes an organism in conflict with itself is doomed. And it's almost as though we that is the state of the planet that we're on and and you know, I can certainly get take my mind to places where we think Have an interconnected planet that it has its its own consciousness in a way, you know, I do think of our own individual consciousness, but group levels of consciousness or super consciousness in a way where there might be various levels of that. And it's, you know, I think this is this fears on the side in the area of sort of hard to prove again, but it is certainly something I think of. I think the other thing about this if I sometimes step back from strip spirituality, and sometimes this works, and sometimes it doesn't, it's like, what, what's really practical, and being a vegan for over seven years now it's been, you know, I've just been consuming plant based. And that's, I'm still standing and I'm still alive. And it's that that practical sense of things really sometimes helps me to say, you know, obviously, I can be confident in doing this thing. But other times, it is a little upsetting that there's this option here, that seems fine for us to do yet we choose to do it, we choose to continue this, this other form of tech getting our food which is which fall, fall fall, I can see it seems completely unnecessary.

Laura Konst: 6:30

I'll say under spirituality point of view of veganism. Some might say when I was reading up about on this subject, so I might say that spirituality is also about accepting death as a natural process, so it's like a, an intrinsic part of life as birth as well. And there's also accounts for plants, animals and humans. And some might say, Yeah, but if we, I am spiritual, but I still consume animal products, because it's also death to the animals is also a part of life, it's about accepting death. How do you view that point?

Unknown: 7:17

I think we need I would ask the person if they wanted to consider it from my point of view to put themselves in the shoes of the, in the position of the animal that was having their life taken away to be eat. And, and I think that's, that's the, that's sort of very basic level, I understand that, you know, I feel very privileged and to be to have come across veganism, and it's kind of opened up my world and change my direction. But I also know that that how that could have not happened. And any of us can turn vegan in any way, any of us. You know, we come across things that we're sort of thankful for, and were exposed to, and then we find it quite hard to communicate to others, and they don't see what what we see. But yeah, I think it's, it's quite difficult to argue against, well, if you you were that animal, and you, you were given a choice. Wouldn't you want to live?

Laura Konst: 8:28

Yes, that's it. Yeah. But then in the animal kingdom, you also have, you know, animals eat each other as well, for the sake of survival. Do you see it because as humans, we are more intelligent, we can find other ways to survive without eating the animals? Is that how you view it?

Unknown: 8:49

Yeah, I think, well, not not just as humans. I mean, I think there's, there's animals make choices as well. You know, I've seen this depicted in our animations, but I think that some sometimes those inspired by behaviors we see in other animals. I mean, this isn't such a good example. But I just wonder why a panda which is an obligate, I believe is an obligate carnivore eats bamboo shoot, for example. And, and I think that the there are other things at play here where we do have a picture of the past, we don't know how true it is, especially in a society that sort of sided towards our conventional Sciences at the moment and we're, we're in a very patriarchal society. So I don't you know, how can we say we know what's true and what's not? I think we can appeal to to nature as being right. Sometimes they do that because it happens in nature. That's true, and that's what needs to happen. That's what continues to continue to happen. But, you know, nature is changing all the time. Sometimes I see society and technology is not not necessarily different to the environment and our planet is an extension of ethnicity extension of expression.

Laura Konst: 10:17

You are a volunteer at the Vegan Society. Yeah. And what do you do for them?

Unknown: 10:25

So I help organize locally. And that that really consists of a US a sort of outreach stand every month is it's usually on a Saturday, we have a an arrangement with the local council and the shopping center, which is, which has been really good for us this last two years, at least, because we used to just be with the council out in the market square. But now in the colder months, we have an arrangement with the shopping center. And we have a stand it is for one day, and it's actually for a few hours, and we have a rotation of volunteers and some leaflets to go out. Sometimes we provide food samples, or have local have a partnership with the local business to provide food samples, and we just talked to people sort of where they're, where they're at, in their journey or their interest. So sometimes they are just vegans that come up and say hi and show their support. But we get to just talk to people about plant based for the environment for for ethical reasons for their health, that kind of thing.

Laura Konst: 11:37

Yeah, I saw on the on the Vegan Society website that the the veganism has quadrupled in the last few years, which is a massive increase, as well. And do you believe that is also because people become a bit more aware of what they eat, but also more aware of the industry that is behind animal consumption? Or yeah, what do you why why do you think it's such a big increase?

Unknown: 12:06

I think the normalization of it and has has really helped, you know, I guess, it was only three years ago, four years ago that I didn't really want to disclose my identity as a vegan at work. But now that so much easier, there's lots more vegan surround people or non vegans are talking quite highly of plant based options. I think also there are a lot more plant based options. So there's a lot more food out there, there's a lot more veganism and in the media, it doesn't, it's not associated with that sort of militant profiles, so much, which I think veganism suffers from. And people are just happier for you to mention it. And I think people are also if they're not vegan, they are perhaps they're not not stigmatized, but not they don't receive the same type of attention if they opt for a plant based meals. So I think that normalization and sort of acceptance of it, and as you say, awareness is really helped it's, it's, yeah, promote it. And obviously, I think the big drivers one of the big drivers are environment. So awareness of the environment and trying to be more environmental, mentally friendly. So sometimes the difficulty with presenting the idea of someone changing their diet and not eating animals anymore, is that it's almost as though you know, we are we have been a very depressive species. There's been a lot of sort of you that we know of dictatorships we we don't like being told what to do. And, you know, if as a, as a vegan, sometimes as a when you're practicing outreach, or trying to get the some of your messages across, you can get quite emotional and end up wondering why people don't do it or, even worse, telling people to, to that they should. And I think that doesn't land well with people because we've we've, as a species, we work so hard to become less and less oppressive and become more liberated ourselves. And, and on the other hand, you know, the difficult thing for me is, I think that liberation comes from being able to liberate those that are most vulnerable, and that we could consider as part of our society and that that includes the animals in our lives, whether they're in our industries or in our homes. We get rid of that, what does it do to our environment, an environment that seems to sort of have this nature about it mirrors our activities. If we're going to talk about karma and that kind of thing, maybe it's a change in our actions and behaviors to bring about, maybe we haven't quite identified the things that could bring about more more happiness, more peace and health and these kind of things.

Laura Konst: 15:29

Definitely. I think if I speak totally for myself, is I really enjoy eating more vegetarian. And, but the why I'm struggling in becoming even more vegetarian, less at 100% or even vegan. Is this a couple of things for me personally, and maybe you can help me with this, maybe you've got really good tips on how I can change this because I'm happy to try new things that I'm not aware of. to tick Well, three things actually number one, eggs and cheese and Dutch we I was born with cheese I am i think i We call ourselves cheese heads. We love our cheese and Holland. eggs as well, because it's a protein. Now I do know you have a lot of protein supplements, such as beans and lentils, pulses. But they're not my favorite foods, I either I don't know either what to do with them. Or I become I feel like more bloated from. And the third one is I just mentioned before, this might be a bit uncomfortable for people, but I'm very open, I just say everything is when I like a few times here when I have my period is the night before I struggle so much I can eat all kinds of things. But the only thing that really helped my car, my body and my mind is a steak. I don't eat chicken, I don't eat pork or Turkey. But just that one steak maybe three or four times a year. For some reason, it really helps me and it's always the night before my period on my first day and my period. And then I think how can I change this because I've tried you know, even like replacements or supplements or different things to sort of not eat that, but for some reason my body just grown accepted until I have that steak at that particular moment. And how can I help myself with that,

Unknown: 17:32

I think is so important because we we seem as a, as a society we seem to have so such a long way to go to understand nutrition better. And I've never found all of the answers for myself, you know, suffering from a lot of disordered eating, having, I've have a history of some mental health issues. And you know, and I've had to find different foods to to almost help my situation throughout different periods of my life without with with different commitments and pressures on me. And, you know, I definitely think that other people have seen my eating choices, there's sort of strange and interesting, whether that's kind of my might with cheese or some other combination. And, and yeah, and I think the the other thing is, yeah, I think lots of information is useful, giving ourselves the opportunity to try things giving ourselves lots of time to transition if that's our desire, if that's alright, so I wanted to start with that in case you appear to want to, you'll be open to finding other options as long as they work, especially in difficult periods. And and I think what I could recommend is a couple of things that worked very well for me it's just been very surprised with the effects of them. Speaking for a year and a half and I guess I wasn't eating incredibly healthily as trying all of the DHA processed and sugary and salty and oily foods. And then after that I discovered whole food plant based which has a quite a simple principle behind it. It it is a lot of those foods that you've mentioned, like lentils and beans and some of those foods that we find it hard to get used to or we all cause bloating, but on a simple level, it's kind of cool. Eating fruits and vegetables as whole as possible. Just as they are I guess uncooked, combining that with grains and pulses races beans, and those sometimes there's there's quite a variety that you can find some, some grains and some pulses, some legumes and beans worked better for you than others I mean, I'm chickpeas for me seems to work really well. Whereas kidney beans I really love but not so a bit harder seems for me to digest. The other principle is kind of if you can, well, it's eating whole is trying to reduce sugar, salt and oil or, or doing without them which was a bit of a revelation for me I kind of considered olive oil to be healthy and salt to be necessary and it was a bit of a revelation to find out that wasn't the case. And when it comes to the actual fruit and veg, you know, the more color there is sort of indicates the the more vitamin and nutrient content. So if you think of a Blackberry, black containing all the colors, that that that's lots of nutrients there. The white rice on the other end of it having the nutrients sort of removed from it. But anyway, the greens and the reds, they're all indicators of nutrients. So eating whole, for me has been really beneficial and I can't but I I will say I can't do that seven days a week I like to do it sort of four or five and then treat myself on the weekends or on other days. And then the in terms of inflammation, which I think has really helped. There's a website called nutritionfacts.org it you may know Dr. Greg or your audience may know got Dr. Greger there, he's part of the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine there's a lot of his colleagues are actually do their own thing which which is which I who I do follow to but with Dr. Greger of nutritionfacts.org The basic thing is that he kind of compiles oxalates studies and tries to present them and obviously he's he's keen on trying to get people to eat more plant based. The other you know, some of the studies on there that he presents might be for for the efficacy the the effects on your body of eating certain vegetables, or fruit or spices. I think that's the last thing I missed out on the plant based whole food diet. I mean, it involves a lot of spices, spices obviously have a lot of color, but there's an so lots of nutrients, but they also help to make the food more interesting. So it definitely ages that I'm born in Iran. So I found it's there was an article there on saffron, and just a wonderful study they did with saffron and depression and how it has had the equivalent effect to some of the medication that's available for for treating depression. But without me. Yeah, and I'll just pick out one story, actually, that is from one of Dr. Gregers books, how not to die or one study, just very briefly, which I like to use, and I think is a really good one. It's about. So there's two groups of people that were put in a study, I think, I'm not going to get the dates, right, but I think it was about six months or a year. One group of people, one of the groups ate whole foods, whole food plant based diet, the one that I described three times a day at normal portions. The other group ate five times a day, same whole food plant based, so two times extra and a DOUBLE PORTIONS that each setting, so it's considerably more food. And then at the end of the study, what was shown was there was no measurable weight gain between the groups. And just to describe that and why I think it's such a positive thing is the idea that, you know, when you're eating plant based whole foods, you're getting a lot of fiber, there is a and fiber ax to it in your body to sort of help it discard what it doesn't need. And it also helps with the digestion process, as I understand it. But the very positive side to that, especially relating to me and some of my history with disordered eating is that it gives it sort of a story that says something about eating until you're satiated eating until you're full, which I think a lot of us kind of value and that's sometimes what we need in life, you know, especially if things things were under pressure, things become intense. And so I like to share that one. I don't I don't know if those have helped and obviously I'm not an expert, but I've certainly always happy to share this kind of thing and I recommend looking up nutritionfacts.org Or the Physicians Committee of Responsible Medicine. They have some great resources on their website.

Laura Konst: 24:58

Oh, that's great. Thank you. I'll show put those in The description as well. Yeah, no, obviously you're not in nutrition, but it's I think it's always good to talk to someone, he does live that lifestyle. But maybe I should actually experiment more with other other ones that I've not tried yet, because I just, yeah, I just sort of dismiss them all, is three or four don't work for me.

Unknown: 25:18

No, no, entirely entirely. And I think there's, there's obviously, you know, some of the time that to put into chain, you know, get these things and prepare them, I actually myself use a lot of prepared food, like into water at tinned food, so beans and water and these kinds of things and bags of salad. So I tried to keep things quite convenient. But the only other thing I would say is like, Absolutely, you kind of get this information from people around you, people that might know you or, or elsewhere from professionals, and it's all about sort of applying it to yourself, but also giving yourself that time. So I think even with the foods that you might be used to, sometimes they do say it takes some time for your body to adapt. But also, it can be that once you if things go well, you you don't miss any of the older foods that you might have relied upon, or you can try to find substitutes. And obviously, as a vegan as someone that's a proponent of eating plant based, I'll always try and encourage that. Absolutely,

Laura Konst: 26:22

definitely to try it, you know, if you try responsibly, then then it shouldn't be doing any harm. Like you said, it's I think it's very important also with vegetarian as well as vegan to have all of the nutritions you know, don't just eat lettuce needs you need your proteins, you need your zinc, you need your B twelves, your vitamin D. So definitely do for the listeners definitely do your research on any of that. Because we're both not nutritionist, so we can't, but we just share our our, our own life stories and our own view. I really liked that you said everything becomes a bit more normal. You know, it's normal to be a vegan is normal to be vegetarian, it is normal to be spiritual. In my podcast that often it's mentioned that the teens at the moment teens and people in their 20s and even children, they're so open about spirituality and food and sustainability and taking care of the environment and crystals, which is completely different from our sort of generation, we grew up very conditioned. And we started to become a bit more open as well now.

Unknown: 27:34

So yeah, entirely, entirely. I think also, we're influenced by conventional science, aren't we and which is, which is in turn influenced by sort of the thinking of an industrial age, and we wear it with, you know, the prominent belief is that we're in a very mechanical universe, and there's, it's, there's, you know, there's no elements of karma, karma and everything is explained way. And consciousness is dismissed as in Yeah, it's sort of the I don't know, if the things I've been reading up a lot about is sort of non duality and this observer based universe where it's, we're, we're connected to the environment around us. It's all really interesting stuff. And it's, it tells a different story to an almost a stronger one to some of the theories of conventional science.

Laura Konst: 28:39

Oh, definitely. I think also, a lot of people don't realize and we talked about it before, briefly, before our podcast is that a lot of great minds, as we can call them, or they, you know, the highly respected conventional science, science world, like Da Vinci or obviously he was an artist, but like Einstein, Newton, Nikola Tesla, they were very spiritual. They loved crystals, but they also often they were vegetarian or vegan, even. And we've we'd never heard of that until you're really going to do research into who these people actually are, rather than the conventional science that everybody knows. I thought that's very interesting. These people knew a lot of thing a Tesla was obsessed with number like he was obsessed with crystals and numerology

Unknown: 29:31

entirely. Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, I think you know, I think that's the other thing, isn't it? Where you bring those names to those names, obviously, we all know and we're in a we're in a world which has very limited views. Sort of in sometimes in our media or sometimes that I guess I guess you can with access to the internet now you can get everyone's views absolutely certain views, there's still dominated, there's still perpetuate. And we're in a very male dominated world. I mean, everyone that you you brought up was male as well. But what I found, I'm really into engineering myself and electronics, robotics, propulsion aerospace. And what I found is that the people I've meet me from all backgrounds from, from, from different genders, you know, we all have a level of ability, and it's very similar. And we all have our own ingenuity. And sometimes you find the most ingenuity just among the people around you. I mean, this this might sound like, yes, that's something very obvious to say. But we we kind of, yeah, I guess our history works. And the people that are promoted, are often promoted in a certain way, you know, the additional information about them, like the the other aspects of their personality, the other aspects of their belief don't quite make it out. But yeah, you just were so multifaceted, aren't we just there's just as just because someone is an engineer it that's not the or, or someone that is spiritual? That's just not the only aspect about them.

Laura Konst: 31:29

Yeah, no, definitely not. Now, it can be a lot of and even a lot of spiritual people that I know, are actually very analytical. They love science, you know, it's not the the hippie that lives in a forest, let's just put it that way. You know, people that are not into the spiritual world, they think that is the case. But actually, it's not. It's no different, a lot of people are more awake than others might suspect

Unknown: 31:56

in terms of people and their ability. So unfortunately, I'm bringing up two men again. But you know, that this is Robert Lanza. And I forget the other co author, but he writes about a theory of biocentrism. And it's, it's kind of a if you haven't heard of it, it is oriented around an environment that's, that's biologically centered. And it's based on observation is quite hard to to explain the principles. But it just comes to mind that at least biocentrism the book and the way it's written is both scientific and spiritual. And it's amazing to see that come together. And in terms of the actual scientific side of things, and the explanations and including the references to mathematical theorems and quantum theory. I almost have not seen anything on par with it. And it's really nice to see that come from these two authors, and be placed together. I think the one other personnel I'll mention who's a biologist by by trade, I guess or by by, as a practice as Rupert Sheldrake and I think we agree Sheldrake brings up crystals actually, but I really love his, his, his work and his, his methods, and also his experiments that they're really amazing and, and thorough, but he's also very spiritual. And if you don't know Rupert Sheldrake is really worth checking out. His his work on morphic resonance, and well also telepathy in the animal kingdom. And ideas around around consciousness. But yeah, just just those two people has been really interesting for me, among others.

Laura Konst: 33:59

Yeah, that they sound very interesting books that there will be something that would definitely well listen to or listen to audiobooks rather than reading. But yes, it's it sounds very interesting. Thank you so much has for this conversation. I think it definitely gives new perspective to all kinds of things. So thank you so much for your time.

Unknown: 34:17

Thank you. Thank you. It's really good to be here.

Laura Konst: 34:19

Thank you so much. And if people like to stay connected with you on Twitter, which the link I'll put in the description as well, it's a bit rude, but then the last Oh isn't zero. And then I'll put that in the description and thank you so much for your time. Thank you. Thank you. We are going to talk about female empowerment and divinity. See you then